My initial reaction to the final scene was anger and then I read this post
Friday, 28 Mar 2025
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I’m surprised people are taking the finale so “personally” – I think it’s phenomenal writing, even if I would have *loved* to see a happy reunion between oMark & Gemma on the outside of Lumon.
It just means the stakes are higher & we’ve got more to expect/look forward to in S3 (which is confirmed)!
Suprised people are “siding” with either Mark tbh,I felt conflicted and I thought most people would feel that way. Both Marks just want to be happy. I wasnt angry at the ending at all.
i think it also goes to the central question of identity: who are we? are we our memories? or is there more to it than that? are we our choices, or again, is there more to it. these are constant science fiction concepts. if we could put our consciousness in a different body, is it still us? is it still human? what if we made clones? are they us or different people entirely? do they have rights?
it can also be directed toward the concept of children. do they have the same rights we do? how much control should parents have over their kids vs how much freedom do we allow for children? how much do we owe children after forcing them to be born without their consent?
I wasn’t thinking about either Mark, I was thinking about Gemma.
Who cares about mark, I was worried about 25 versions of Gemma
I think the conversation has created two sides and attempts to shove people in either camp when I think majority folks understand and empathize with both. It should, if anything, encourage people to have an inner dialogue with themselves and to be kinder to themselves. That was the whole point of Dylan’s reconciliations
I think Jame Eagan is going to replace Helena with Helly R. which will further complicate the oMark and iMark relationship
I don’t think he was thinking about an endgame at all. I think he was thing 5 seconds before he acted. He knew what choice he didn’t want to make, so he chose the one he did. To be with Helly for however long they had. I think it’s that simple. There is no future. There is only now and I’m with the woman I love. By my own choosing.
I am surprised people like these are losing the plot entirely that both the iMark and oMark the oppressed here, and it is Lumon who is the big baddie.
I was mostly just sad. The only frustration I had was that I-Mark didn’t try communicating to Gemma at all. Telling her to get to safety, go get help, find O-Mark’s sister… anything like that could have got her moving and out of immediate danger.
Innie mark still risked it all to save someone else’s wife. Glad he stayed.
I was just mad/sad for Gemma. She has suffered so much more than any of them.
Totally understand iMark but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to beat his ass lmao. Like I want the Gemma suffering to end. 😭
Also I’m an oMark defender through and through. If Gemma was my wife I’d be so much worse. She’s so bad. 😂 The lies I’d be spinning to get her back would be diabolical. I like iMark as a viewer but if I was oMark I would be like fuck your lil crush idc I want my WIFE. 😂
I’m not at all surprised with IMark’s decision after his conversation with OMark. It was VERY clear that all OMark cared about was getting Gemma out and that would be the end of it, no reintegration, no IMark. IMark saved Gemma and he had a decision to make, die by leaving in to the stairwell or live for a few moments longer with the woman he loves. I Loved the ending. I loved IMark making that decision for himself, choosing to acknowledge that his life matters. I loved that Gemma was saved, I thought she would die, and that there will be so much more to come for her story. I love OMark too, although not as much this episode as I didn’t like his lying and disregard of IMark, and I’m sure there will be a lot more to come from him too. It’s sets S3 up to be very exciting indeed!
I was just sad for Gemma
The reason I was mad is that Cobel makes it clear to iMark that Lumon will kill him once CH is done. Well, it’s done now. So what is the plan? Hide in the building for a while until they root you out and kill you?
From his perspective, he’s dead for sure as soon as he sets foot outside, since he doesn’t trust oMark to complete reintegration. Even if he does, that’s going to be 90% oMark. Once I realized that, it made a little more sense. IMark is basically given two choices, both of which result in death. One lets him last a few minutes longer, I guess.
Only reason I’m siding with oMark is because all the innies will die either because they finished a project, retire, or get fired (getting fired seems most likely now). iMark knows it, and Helly knows it, but decided that if they can’t be together nobody can – assuming Lumon kidnaps Gemma again or doesn’t let her leave the building.
I like this take … thx
It’s interesting that I don’t see many people talking about the very, very last frame of the episode- where you can clearly see innie Mark and Helly having a “oh shit now what” realization. It feels very similar to the end scene of The Graduate, and I think that was more why I didn’t care for HOW it was written.
The finale left the innies in a position that I cannot see a way out or how they are allowed to continue to exist by Lumon. Gemma is gone. Mark killed Drummond. Helly and Dylan staged a coup. MDR’s biggest project is complete. Irving’s in the wind. They’re cooked- and if they are somehow able or allowed to continue to work together, it seems unrealistic for a company that we know murders people at least semi-regularly.
I think it was important to show the innies as capable and determined and driven with wants and needs and desires. My beef is that I think the last two episodes of the show put the viewer in a position that should lead us to the conclusion the innies are done for- and if they aren’t, then the writers are contradicting their own messaging of Lumon.
Watching the finale I realised I don’t think Gemma’s 25 innies have any right to life, and I’d never accept that she has a moral duty to let them return. Therefore i realised I don’t truly see innies as independent people. More like aspects of their outie with formative experiences removed, like an amnesiac post-brain injury. And if it’s true of gemmas innies, it’s also true of Mark S and Helly R.
Nah. This take is so overdone on this subreddit.
The problem people have isn’t that iMark is “less of a person”.
It’s that, first of all, the reintegration plotline had to be sidelined for this conflict to emerge. That spreads suspension of disbelief pretty thin.
Secondly, he has no plan. He’s basically giving himself to Lumon, who could easily just shut him off anyways like they did with Irving, not to mention they showed they would have absolutely no qualms killing him in cold blood, like Mr. Drummond was going to do to him until Brienne of fuckin’ Tarth showed up. So, not only is Mark endangering himself with this pipe dream of having a romance with the innie of the CEO’s daughter, he’s also endangering his outie.
Thirdly, and most importantly, speaking of the way other people were affected by his choice, people are upset because of how it affected Gemma. She’s just been locked in a building for two years, gets saved by her husband, only to be forced to watch her husband walk away with another woman. This woman v woman trope is honestly tired and overplayed, and tbh the way that the writers have been leaning so heavily on love triangles to express conflict between innie and outie in this season is kind of just cringey.
I understand why innie Mark would have trouble trusting outie Mark considering he’s only ever been lied to and manipulated by Lumon, but this development honestly feels like it came out of nowhere. We go from iMark *screaming* SHE’S ALIVE as the cliffhanger finale for S1 to him all of a sudden deciding that he doesn’t care about her.
It all feels contrived for dramatic effect and to extend the storyline into another season.
In my opinion it was the logic season end, and one of the most satisfying I’ve seen. Why should Innie end his life? that is the main topic.
Awesome show with profound dilemas, unlike Matrix Resurrection when trinity realizes that her children are fake, she felt rage but… as a parent I can tell you that in that case it doesn’t matter if they are programs or not, they are you children, and the only logic outcome would be Trinity to fight with them, even if that means to defend the Matrix.
I guess Innie Mark defending lumon against Outie will be the main point in the 3rd season.
Outtie Mark is the one who thought his wife was dead for TWO YEARS. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if in the early aftermath they tried hard to recruit Mark and convince him severance was the answer. I doubt they let it up to chance that he would go to work there.
So excuse me for choosing to sympathize with him moreso than his two year old innie who has no future with Helly anyways but could actually have a chance at reintegration
Season 1 = We have to get out
Season 2 = We have to go back
Season 3 = Synthesis?
To be honest, I don’t love this take. I actually do understand iMark’s actions and I can respect the choice he made considering that oMark would probably have never come back to the severed floor again.
However, his choice wasn’t an “inconvenience” for oMark: it meant forcing a husband to abandon his wife in an unknown and dangerous situation. I really empathized with Gemma, more so than oMark in a way. That’s what made me angry at iMark.
This is what the show’s been building towards since the beginning. It’s a classic “sophie’s choice” plot device where a character is given an impossible choice to make and it causes all sorts of moral dilemmas and such. There is no clear winner and no clear loser. It’s based on the classic novel of the same name taking place during WW2 where a mother is forced to choose which of her two children lives and which dies.
I loved this ending, he was right, I am sure outie Mark is done being severed and innie Mark last moments would be at that door, he would never see Helly again, and that was obvious to me, so that ending was perfect to show he’s not giving up his life
Give me a break. He’s not “the oppressed” it’s one guy trying to take back control of his mind.
My frustration/anger was more focused on how shortsighted that decision was. It lacked any ounce of common sense and it seemed like he thought about it a good bit, too, which makes it worse haha
Like what’s the endgame here ? At best you’re buying yourself and Helly a couple more hours and at worst you’re dooming yourself to never leave this fucked up company. Innie Mark saw that he could exist outside of Lumon, in the fertility clinic. Letting outie Mark get back to his wife wasn’t necessarily going to doom him. Might have been his only chance to not die, actually, cause ain’t no way outie Mark is never getting out again and now he’s got a reason to protect himself and his life by terminating innie Mark forever.
Idk man. Whether it’s the point of the show or not, it’s frustrating as hell. And yet I’m happy that means we’re getting a season 3.
I fell in love with Gemma in Chikhai Bardo so I wasn’t seeing it from either Mark’s POV. I wanted him to choose her because my first thought when he’s running to Helly was “oh no! Gemma is going to think this is the woman he’s moved on with! She’s finally free but this is heartbreaking!”
When I did look at it from iMark’s POV, it felt completely earned and exactly right even though I was heartbroken for Gemma.
But the part that angered me is it was said that once he finishes Cold Harbour, Innie Mark’s work is done.
Does he think him and Helly can just outrun them forever and stay hiding in Lumon’s severed floor together?
I know he didn’t trust his outie and Ms. Cobel, but he had to have figured out they were right when everything else happened as they said it would.
Maybe I’m just marginalized but I sided with Innie Mark from the jump. And I was rooting so much more for Mark S. and Helly. Because after the back-and-forth of Innie and Outie Mark, I realized that Outie Mark was really entitled and it put me off so much.
I swear marvel shows have fried people’s brains or maybe they didn’t do anything because there was nothing to fry. The beauty of the show is not being able to have a clear black and white distinction between the actions of most characters. The only truly “bad” character is Lumon upper management, other than that there a whole lot of gray areas that are impossible to navigate through.
For the people who think innie Mark isn’t really a fully formed person and innies are simply an extension of their outies, I am genuinely curious: did you feel this way prior to the finale? Because I feel like I’ve only seen people stating this opinion afterwards.
Edit: To be super clear, I am not asking why you feel this way, I’m asking if you felt this way prior to the finale or not. And if you didn’t, what changed for you?
I would probably be less mad if Innie Mark could tell the difference between Helly & Helena
Is that really the point the show is making? Or is that just this author’s interpretation?
As long as their choices fit within the character, or their development – i don’t care what choices they make – it’s part of the story’s narrative, not a reflection of me.
in the end, this is all ‘fabricated” drama in the sense that severance is basically controlled amnesia.
Would we opt against someone suffering from amnesia being lead to remember their past?
Do we consider the new person dead or just the same person remembering themselves?
The show works hard to make iMark seem like a different person. But he’s mark, with amnesia. Petey had no problem using the same banter with oMark he used with iMark after reintegration, nor an issue trusting him outside – so his innie most certainly came through because in the end, they *are* the same person.
I was siding with “escaping Lumon” vs. “not escaping Lumon”.
Based on the information we have, there’s not a scenario where Innie Mark continues to exist by running back into Lumon with Helly. They will either terminate him (Innie Mark is gone) or they kill him (Innie Mark is gone). There’s not a realistic scenario where Innie Mark lives happily ever after without leaving Lumon and reintegrating. Sure, writers could make it happen but all logic points to this not being the best decision.
I am not the best in English, could you explain it to me in a more simple way?